737NG "ENG OUT" Verhalten

[MartinM]

Gruezi

 

Kann mir jemand sagen, wie sich die FMC der 737-800 verhält, bezw. der Autopilot, wenn ich in den ENG OUT Mode wechsle.

 

Gem. meinen Informationen (Stand Nov. '98) werden sämtliche AP Modis in denen man sich befindet weitergeführt, jedoch mit den neu berechneten VNAV / N1 / MAX ALT Werten.

 

Wer weiss mehr? Kann es sein, dass das Verhalten in den neuen 737-800 geändert hat? Software Update oder so?

 

Gruss

Martin

[Peter Guth]

hallo,

 

ein "engine out modus" berechnet, wenn vorhanden und aktiviert, die aktuell neuen Performancedaten für VNAV. Dazu gehören: neue "machbare" (maximale) Flughöhe, N1 Werte, sowie Speeds bei max. continued thrust. Auf Grund der drastisch verringerten Gesamtleistung müssen nämlich Pitch+Powersetting angepasst werden, um die Maschine innerhalb nun neuer Limits zu halten.

 

Beim VNAV Mode rastet dann CLB ENG OUT PROC, bzw. der AT folgt, bei Flightlevelchange, der neuen Berechnung.

 

Ob das Dein Add On Flugzeug simuliert, weiß ich nicht. 

 

Gruß Peter

[MartinM]

Hallo Peter

 

Gem. jemandem, der sich nennt ein 737 Captain zu sein, ist die Angabe bei der 737 NG serie rein informativ. Gem. seiner Aussage mach das FMC einen "VNAV/LNAV Disconnect" Also laut ihm, geht der AP micht mehr.

 

Gilt das was du sagst, für alle 737 ?

 

Gruss

Martin

[Peter Guth]

hallo Martin,

 

meine Infos erhielt ich telefonisch von einem AB Kollegen im Bezug auf die /800.  Werde aber nochmals nachfragen..

 

Für andere Modelle, hier z.B. /400 gilt: AT should not be use with an engine inoperative (vgl. FOM, Section 5.3). Ich kann Dir gerne mal ein orig. Exemplar übersenden, Revision 10/2002.

 

Zusätzlich zu meinem Angebot hier ein Überblick, was es seitdem für Updates beim FMC gegen hat:

<H3>Update 10.3 - 14 Aug 2000 - Ref 737-SL-34-153-A</H3>

1. Polar Navigation Capability- Added the capability to allow the FMC to provide navigation guidance over the polar regions. Also added GPS (global positioning system) Track data to the PROGRESS page to provide aircraft heading data at the poles if both IRUs (inertial reference unit) fail. GPS position is used as the center point on the EFIS (electronic flight instrument system) POS SHIFT display if both IRUs fail.
   
2. Geometric Path Descent (GPD) Option - Allows flying along a computed constant gradient path from one altitude restriction to the next during descent. The GPD gradient may be constructed via edits on the CDU (control display unit), including inserting waypoints and deleting altitude restrictions on the gradient legs.
   
3. Engine-out SIDs Option - Adds engine out SIDs (standard instrument departures) to the NDB (navigation data base) and provides for the display and selection of these SIDs on the departure page. These SIDs can be automatically inserted into the flight plan during climb with flaps extended when the ENG OUT prompt on the CLB page is selected.
   
4. Quiet Climb Option - When Quiet Climb is enabled via the FMC OPC (operational program configuration), the Update 10.3 OPS will support noise abatement procedures by providing a quiet climb cutback N1 target between a pre-programmed thrust reduction altitude and the restoration altitude. The default thrust reduction and restoration altitudes are provided in the Model/Engine Database (MEDB) and may be changed through the Loadable Performance Defaults Data Base (LDDB), manually changed at the CDU, or uplinked via ACARS (aircraft communication addressing and reporting system.
   
5. VNAV Disengagement During RNP Operations - A change is implemented to reduce VNAV (vertical navigation) disconnects during RNP (required navigation performance) operation. VNAV may now remain engaged within the allowable 2 X (times) RNP Crosstrack Deviation window, or when LNAV (lateral navigation) is engaged.
   
6. Revision to Planned Fuel Logic - Planned Fuel values are now retained during test of the engine packs.
   
7. Map Display During Missed Approach - The runway symbol on the map remains displayed during a missed approach operation, even after it has been sequenced.
   
8. Takeoff to Climb Transition - The FMC will automatically transition to the CLB page when on the TAKEOFF REF page and weight goes off wheels.
   
9. Revised Block Operating Speeds (737-300400500) - The FMC programmed block operating speeds for have been increased as follows:
    
   <TABLE id=table3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=786 border=1>
   <TBODY>
   <TR>
   <TD align=middle colSpan=4>Airplane Gross Weight</TD></TR>
   <TR>
   <TD width=196>Flap Position</TD>
   <TD width=196>Less Than 117K Lbs.</TD>
   <TD width=196>117K to 138.5K Lbs</TD>
   <TD width=196>Greater Than 138.5K Lbs</TD></TR>
   <TR>
   <TD width=196>5 Degrees</TD>
   <TD width=196>180 Knots</TD>
   <TD width=196>190 Knots</TD>
   <TD width=196>200 Knots</TD></TR>
   <TR>
   <TD width=196>10 Degrees</TD>
   <TD width=196>170 Knots</TD>
   <TD width=196>180 Knots</TD>
   <TD width=196>190 Knots</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
   
10. Message Change - The IRS NAV ONLY message is eliminated and the UNABLE REQD NAV PERF-RNP message is displayed when ANP (actual navigation performance) exceeds RNP for the specified delay time.
    
11. FMC RNP Approach Operations - VNAV will no longer be disconnected at the GSI (glideslope intercept) point unless the FCC (flight control computer) glideslope mode is armed.
    
12. CLB N1 Display - CLB N1 Limit values are now displayed as well as Derate CLB N1 values. On previous updates only the Derate CLB N1 values were displayed on the CLIMB page.
    
13. Pilot Defined Company Routes Option - Adds an additional data base that consists of only company routes and waypoints. This new data base will support up to 20 flight plans (maximum of 150 waypoints each up to a total of 1000 waypoints).
    
14. Miscellaneous - U10.3 adds several miscellaneous changes to the FMC RTE, PROG and LEGS pages as well as changes that address in service problems including the following:
    A. Improves dual FMC operation to reduce the number of vertical miscompares between the two FMCs.
    B. Improves dual FMC operation to reduce the possibility of fuel quantity miscompares between the two FMCs
    C. Improves the FMC restart logic to reduce the number of restarts experienced in service.
    D. Improves FMC software restart logic to retain all flight plans through the first software restart when on
    E. Corrects a condition where the FMC used a derated N1 for Climb/Go-Around when an assumed temperature derated takeoff was performed.
    F. Corrects a condition where the FMC would provide the wrong set-landing altitude under certain conditions.
    G. Corrects a condition where a non-selected IRU could impact the FMC navigation position in a dual FMC installation.
    H. Corrects a condition where the FMC would erroneously display “Database Crossload Fail” when crossloading a large navigation database file (greater than 1 meg) between FMCs.
    

 

 

<H3>Update 10.4 - 14 Sep 2001 - Ref 737-SL-34-163</H3>

1. Increased Database Capacity- The software controlled memory partition has been revised to increase navigation data base capacity from 2.5 to 3.5 Mega-Words and the MEDB capacity from 1.0 to 1.5 Mega-Words
   
2. Enhanced Vertical Navigation (VNAV) - The following enhancements to VNAV operation have been included in U10.4:
   • VNAV will now remain in PATH mode when the FMC cross track error exceeds RNP (Required Navigation Performance) during idle descent legs and computed gradient legs. Prior FMC versions resulted in reversion to VNAV SPEED mode under the same condition.
   • When VNAV Speed Intervention option is enabled and speed intervention is exited during VNAV descent, VNAV will switch to PATH mode if not in PATH mode and a PATH is determined to be available.
   • The FMC will display the message "VNAV DISCONNECT" when VNAV disconnects during approach due to flight control computer (FCC) reversion to "LVL CHG" mode.
   
3. Enhanced Global Positioning System (GPS) and Inertial Reference System (IRS) Reasonableness Checks - Improved GPS and IRS reasonableness tests have been added to protect the FMC navigation solution from unreasonable data. If the GPS drift is determined to be excessive, the FMC will suspend GPS updating until the GPS position is determined to be reasonable again. FMC logic in dual FMC installations has been improved to better identify and reject a badly drifting inertial reference sensor.
   
4. Resize Hold Pattern for Descent Altitudes - The default leg time for a hold pattern is now based on the predicted altitude of the hold fix waypoint. When the HOLD point becomes the GO-TO waypoint, the FMC does a final check of the altitude and adjusts the hold leg time accordingly (1- minute leg time below 14,200 feet or 1.5 minutes above 14,200 feet). The hold leg time is not adjusted for manually entered leg lengths.
   
5. Modifications to FMC "RTE HOLD" Page - Default values on the RTE HOLD page are now displayed in small font. Large font will be used to display navigation data base or crew entered items. The RTE HOLD page will now display an "EXIT HOLD" prompt after an in-hold edit has been executed. Subsequent selection of the "EXIT HOLD" prompt will delete the new hold.
   
6. Addition of Data Outputs to Support Future Enhanced Systems and Displays - Several new parameters are now output from the FMC to support future Common Display System (CDS) Vertical Situation Display symbology, the Heads Up Guidance System, and the Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System.
   
7. Modifications to FMC "APPROACH REF" Page - A new FLAP/SPD field has been added to the APPROACH REF page at location Line Select Key (LSK) 4R. Selection of a VREF speed in fields LSK 1R, 2R or 3R will result in the selection appearing in the LSK 4R field. The location of the approach frequency and identifier along with the front course information is now located in the LSK 4L field, and the GA N1 field has been removed.
   
8. Added "RW/APP TUNE DISAGREE" and "RW/APP CRS ERROR" FMC Messages - The U10.4 FMC will display the "RW/APP TUNE DISAGREE" or "RW/APP CRS ERROR" messages when a tuned frequency or selected course does not agree with the FMC flight plan.
   
9. Added "H/W CONFIG" Maintenance Page on the FMC CDU - An FMC Built In Test Equipment (BITE) "H/W CONFIG" maintenance page has been added to display data associated with the installed FMC hardware. The displayed data includes hardware part number, serial number, elapsed time indicator, inter-system bus status and processor speed.
   
10. Correct Intermittent Blanking of Route Data on the Common Display System (CDS) Map Display - U10.3 introduced a condition where the FMC would intermittently stop providing route data to the CDS Map display in conditions of high FMC processing demand. This condition has been corrected in the U10.4 update.
    
11. Optional Features Added in U10.4 - The U10.4 adds the following functions available as an option and activated when the appropriate operational program configuration (OPC) software is installed:
    

• Automatic Engine Out Standard Instrument Departure (SID) Selection - The FMC will automatically select an available Engine-Out SID and create a MOD page for the departure runway, if Engine-Out indication is received by the FMC when the airplane is in climb with flaps extended. The feature is only available on the 737NG airplane and requires part number 10-62017-52 or later autothrottle computer.
  
• Display of Missed Approach on the CDS MAP Display in Cyan - The FMC will display the missed approach waypoints in cyan rather than magenta on the map display prior to it becoming active.
  
• Inhibit Gross Weight Entry on FMC CDU "PERF INIT" Page - Only entry of Zero Fuel Weight is allowed, and entry or deletion of Gross Weight is inhibited.
  
• Disable Takeoff Fixed Derates - Selection of fixed derates on the "N1 LIMIT" FMC CDU page is inhibited and only assumed temperature takeoff derates are allowed.
  

 

 

<H3>Update 10.4A - 17 May 2002 - Ref 737-SL-34-166</H3>

<BLOCKQUOTE>The Update 10.4A (U10.4A) OPS, P/N 549849-011 incorporates a software change to address a condition in U10.4 where the FMC hardware erroneously enters into a latched failed condition.

 

The P/N 10-62225-004 FMC with Update 10.4 software may "lock up" if multiple ARINC BITE tests are initiated. The ARINC BITE test can be initiated if an ARINC input has missing or bad data. If the test fails, the test is re-run. The FMC "lock up" condition occurs if the subsequent wrap test fails due to an internal timing problem and not because of a problem with the ARINC 429 interface itself. The "lock-up" condition can occur approximately once every 3000 tests. Since the test is only conducted if a problem is detected in one of the FMC ARINC data inputs, the condition is not expected to occur frequently in-service. This condition was the subject of the reference d) Fleet Team Digest article

 

 

<H3>Update 10.5 - 10 Feb 2003 - Ref 737-SL-34-172</H3>

1. Approach Ref Entries- The Approach Ref page will now accept landing flap entries of 0, 1, 2, 5, 10 or 25 for the landing flaps, with a corresponding manual Vref entry, in addition to the standard landing flap settings (15, 30, 40) for non-normal procedures such as landing with flap asymmetries.
   
2. Full Time Display of Active Altitude Constraint – The FMC outputs the next applicable altitude constraint to the Electronic Flight Instruments/Common Display Systems (EFIS/CDS) for display on the MAP, independent of the RTE DATA button selection on the EFIS/CDS control panel making this function common with other Boeing model FMCs.
   
3. MAGVAR – The FMC incorporates an updated MAGVAR (magnetic variation) model with data extrapolated to 2005 values.
   
4. New Actual Navigation Performance Calculated Value Lower Limit – The U10.5 software revises the floor for its Actual Navigation Performance (ANP) calculated value to a lower limit of 0.02nm.
   
5. Allow Entry of RW on DESCENT and FIX pages – Any runway from the destination airport may be entered as the reference fix on the FIX and DESCENT pages.
   
6. TACAN Approaches - The FMC supports inclusion of TACAN approaches in the FMC Navigation Data Base.
   
7. Fuel Filter - The FMC now disables its Fuel Quantity Lag Filters during on-ground operations.
   
8. Tropopause – A typical tropopause breakpoint at 36,000 feet is now incorporated into the planned descent path. This should reduce the tendency to over-speed during path descents that start from cruise altitudes above FL360.
   
9. Direct Climb to Descent Transitions – The FMC will switch directly from climb to descent on short flight plans without going through the cruise phase.
   
10. Thrust Rating Model and Engine Performance Model - The FMC software update incorporates new airplane configurations to support 737-600 airplanes equipped with 7B22/B2 bump thrust rating and new 737-700 configurations with 7B26/B2 bump thrust rating. (Not applicable to 737-300/-400/-500 airplanes).
    
11. Allowable Gross Weight for Calculated Take-off Speeds Changed – In addition to Aircraft Model and Thrust Rating, Temperature and Airport Altitude are now included in the calculation of Minimum Takeoff Weight. This will primarily benefit 737-BBJ aircraft which have relatively higher Minimum Gross Weight requirements before calculated takeoff speeds are available. With the new method, 737-BBJ aircraft will have calculated takeoff speeds available at lower minimum gross weights when operating at high altitude airports and particularly on hot days. (Not applicable to 737-300/-400/-500 airplanes).
    
12. Predict Missed Approach Sooner – The missed approach path is now predicted full time so that crews can determine turn directions and other data before actually beginning the missed approach.
    
13. FPA Limit – The previous VNAV path descent control limits of 7 degrees flight path angle (FPA) above the airport speed restriction altitude and 6 degrees below, have been replaced. The new limits are now based on calculated limits that correspond to flight path angles of Mmo/Vmo. Limits of Mmo/Vmo minus 5 knots have been set when above the airport speed restriction altitude and limits of the airport speed restriction plus 10 knots for below this altitude. This will result in slower acceleration rates toward limit speeds when above the descent path or when encountering unforecast tailwinds during path descents. Occurrences of OVERSPEED DISCONNECT should be reduced.
    
14. Optional Features added in U10.5 - The U10.5 software update adds the following functions available as an option and activated when the appropriate OPC software and or/other noted required system software is installed:
    • Vertical Required Navigation Performance (RNP) - The FMC provides flight crew capability to enter/review lateral and vertical RNP values provided to displays, defining the full scale deviation for the Navigation Performance Scales (display of LNAV and VNAV deviations on the PFD). In addition to the U10.5 FMC, updated Common Display System (CDS) software is required. (Not applicable to 737-300/-400/-500 airplanes).
    • VNAV Speed Bands - The FMC transmits the upper and lower limits, defining the limits of a speed band in VNAV path descent. Theses limits are the speeds at which mode changes will occur, to arrest acceleration or deceleration, while flying the Idle Thrust VNAV path. In addition to the U10.5 FMC, updated CDS software is required for this function. (Not applicable to 737-300/-400/-500 airplanes).
    • Double Derate Display – The FMC transmits Thrust Mode information in support of CDS Double Derate N1 Limits annunciations. In addition to the U10.5 FMC, updated CDS software is required for this function. (Not applicable to 737-300/-400/-500 airplanes).
    • Integrated Approach Navigation (IAN) – The IAN function allows FMS RNAV approaches and other non-precision approaches to be flown in an ILS-look-a-like manner, with common flight crew procedures. This capability consists of the FMCS computing “ILS-look-a-like” deviations and transmitting the deviations to the Autopilot, Displays, EGPWS and the flight data recorder system (FDRS) on existing data busses for guidance, display, alerting and recording. In addition to the U10.5 FMC and updated FMC OPC software, updated Autopilot, Displays, EGPWS and FDRS are required for this function.
    (Not applicable to 737-300/-400/-500 airplanes).
    • GPS Landing System (GLS) – The FMC selects LAA (Local Area Augmentation) only GLS approach types if they are defined in the Navigation Database, and decodes the GLS channel/deviation input. In addition to the U10.5 FMC and updated FMC OPC software, updated Autopilot, Sensors, Displays, EGPWS and FDRS are required for this function. (Not applicable to 737-300/-400/-500 airplanes).
    • ATS Datalink – When this software option is enabled, the FMS includes the following functionality:
       • ATC Datalink (ATC DL) – This feature enables direct Controller-Pilot datalink communication. The crew interface is via the FMC Multipurpose Control Display Unit (MCDU).
       • Automatic Dependent Surveillance (ADS) – This feature provides automatic position data reporting.
       • ATS Facilities Notification (AFN) – This feature is the “logon” function used to notify ATC of an aircraft’s “address” for the purposes of establishing ATC DL and ADS communication. The crew interface is via the FMC MCDU.
    
15. In-Service Issues – The U10.5 update provides software changes to address the following inservice operational problems:
    • CDU blanking during upload of a large number of flight plan wind data via ACARS.
    • CDS/EFIS Map data blanking when the airplane is flying slightly below path during descent.
    • FMC software restarts after flying direct-to with multiple ABEAM waypoints.
    • Marginal ARINC 429 transmitter operation in the P/N 10-62225-004 hardware.
    • Addition of 429 data labels that are necessary to support ACARS operation for some operators.
    • Reduce occurrences of down modes to single FMC operation, by adding several improvements to the FMC dual operation comparison logic.
    

 

 

 

Gruß Peter

[mhecker]

schönen sonntag!

 

sind die engine-out procedures airlinespezifisch? ich würde gern ein excelsheet basteln, dass als takeoff-calculator funktioniert. im efras stehen immer auch die single engine climb out procedures drin. hat jemand von euch ein paar beispiele für flughäfen in deutschland? wahrscheinlich ist es ziemlich komplex, da ja die obstacles in airportnähe beachtet werden müssen (wo findet man diese infos eigentlich?). da ist sicherlich auch die leistungsfähigkeit des flugzeugs wichtig. aber egal. ich würde es gern ungefähr wissen.

 

ich weiß, viele fragen und vielleicht auch ein bisschen konfus. freue mich trotzdem über antworten!

 

danke!

 

martin

[Peter Guth]

hier mal - wahllos - einige Engine Failure Procedures, Company Procedure 2000 für B757/B763:

 

Düsseldorf (Page 40-0):

 

RWY 05 R/L= clb on rwy heading, at LI NDB turn left inbound LMA ND, After acceleration follow radar vectors. Acc.alt is 1100ft

 

RWY 23 R/L = climb on MT 234°, After acceleration follow radar vectors. Acc.alt is 1100ft

 

 

Frankfurt (Page 40-0):

 

RWY 07R/L = climb on RWY HDG until D9.0 FFM. Then turn right inbound RID VOR and climb to 4000ft. Acc.alt is 1400ft

 

RWY 25 R/L = climb on RWY HDG until latest D15.0 FFM. Then turn left inbound RID VOR and climb to 4000ft. Acc.alt is 1400ft

 

RWY 18 = Climb on R359 inbound RID VOR. Reaching D 3.5 RID turn left to intercept R250 inbound CHA VOR and climb to 4000ft. Acc.alt is 1400ft.

 

 

Calcutta/India :D (Page 11-0)

 

RWY 01 L/R = climb on RWY HDG. At 1000ft turn right inbound CEA VOR and climb to 2000ft. Acc.alt is 800ft

 

RWY 19 R/L: climb on RWY HDG. At 1000ft turn left inbound DU NDB and climb to 2000ft. Acc.alt is 800ft

 

 

 

Dresden (Page 40-0)

 

RWY 04 = climb on RWY HDG. Accelerate at 2000ft, thereafter turn right inbound DRN VOR

 

RWY 22 = climb straight ahead inbound DRN VOR. Acc.alt is 2000ft

 

 

 

Funchal, Madeira :D (Page 12-0)

 

RWY 06 = turn right ASAP on MT 090°. IAS V2 min. bank 15°. Intercept QDM 040 to PST NDB and climb to 3500ft. Acc.alt is 800ft

 

RWY 24 = Turn left ASAP on MT 130°. IAS V2 min. bank 15°. Intercept QDM 040 to PST NDM and climb to 3500ft. Acc.alt is 800ft

 

 

oder, z.B.

Iraklion, Crete/Greece (Page 40-0)

 

RWY 09 = at 300ft turn left on HDG 060°. Reaching 2000ft left inbound IRA VOR and climb to 5000ft. Acc.alt is 900ft

 

RWY 27 = at 300ft. but not later than D3.0 IRA, turn right HDG 360° to intercept R338 IRA. Reaching 2000ft turn right inbound IRA VOR and climb to 5000ft. Acc.alt is 900ft

 

 

uff..... weitere "500" auf Wunsch

 

Gruß Peter

[mhecker]

uff..... weitere "500" auf Wunsch

 

Gruß Peter

 

Na, dann wollen wir mal:

Ich fliege ja wahnsinnig gern von Erfurt, Leipzig, Schönefeld, LEPA, LIMC, LEIB, LIPZ, EGSS, EDDH, EDDM, EDDS, EDFH, LOWW, LOWI, EGKK, LFMT etc.

 

Ich weiß! Ich bin ein bisschen unverschämt :o . Naja, nichts für ungut...

 

Martin

 

 

PS: Kann noch was als Entschuldigung in die Waagschale werfen: Hab gerade noch was in meinem RYR Flighplan von LFMT-EDFH gefunden.

EMERGENCY TURN-ENGINE OUT PROCEDURE - LFMT 31R:

At D3.0 FGR commence a 15 degree bank turn to the right on to 150 deg(M) to the FG LCTR. When established on 150 deg(M) accelerate and retract flaps. At the FG LCTR continue climb...Rest wegen schlechter Kopie nicht lesbar...MH

[Siegfried]

Hallo Martin,

 

LOWW ist einfach :) ...auch wenn's mache Fluglotsen stört ;) (Insiderwitz)

 

RWY11: D1-vor FMD links nach WGW VOR (162 Grad inbound, LEFT turn)

RWY16: bei D17,5 WGM links nach WGW VOR (162 Grad inbound, LEFT turn)

RWY34: at WGM VOR ins Holding (162 Grad inbound, Left turn)

RWY29: bei WO (NDB 303) links rum nach BRK NDB (294Grad inbound, LEFt Turn)

 

INN ist interessant:

 

RWY08: einfach das Inntal (anfangs genau übern Inn) entlang bis du genügend Höhe hast und du dir überlegst wie und wo du eine Landung machen willst.....

 

RWY26 ist wohl schwierig:

 

http://www.AustrianAviationArt.org/forum/innfcop26.gif

 

...viel Spaß beim Nachfliegen :)

 

Allerdings: "Unsere" 737ng's sind die einzigen, die das mittels RNP auch automatisch fliegen können.